Curse

Fantus · Nov 11, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teufel Eldritch

Fantus, my Mez has no problems with the new update I don't see why yours would be any different. True I don't use any AoE spells but then again as a Mez I have never had a real need to use them.

Mine doesn't do AoE stuff either, but if the critters lose aggro on the tank due to some guy using AoE stuff, she might (and will) get attacked randomly since critters will dash around madly and attack anyone in range. She has really no defense against level 30 critters and will get killed quite quickly. That was my point. My Mesmer herself is quite unharmed by the patch. The nerfing of a WARRIOR'S TANKING is her problem.

id0l · Nov 11, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loch

You obviously don't get it. If you ever read these forums after a game update, you'd realize two things:

1) People who like the changes will keep playing the game.
2) People who hate the changes register for the forums and complain.

You get a terrible representation of gamers' opinions this way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishop

90% of the posts in any forum are complaints, so that point needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Look at how many posts there has been since the thread opened. I think I get it. Update = sucks. Kthx.

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

True but I mean 1000+ posts in a 1-2 hours means something went wrong doesn't it?

Exactly.

GWGuru · Nov 11, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by domino69

like i said, if you want to use collectors, knock yourself out

so you mean the collectors ascalon bow (long bow version) with a perfect sundering and fortitude mod is better than a perfect Sundering Eternal Bow of Fortitude?

lmao...they're both long bows...except one looooks so much hotter...

you my friend dont know your bows...a long bow is a long bow...google it...

actually...what I'm saying is that I'd rather not blow my wad on a junk bow and just use the collectors junk bow instead.(for all intents and purposes it's free). You've taken the worst string in the game and coupled with a grip that only adds a top end buffer to your health and really has no effect unless you find yourself alive at the end of a battle with less than 30 HP and thrown it onto a bow with a god awful refire rate and an incredible arc that makes it as easy as kiting to avoid getting hit. The only time a longbow should ever be used is for pulling...and for that I use the longbow I got in pre-searing.

delfin42 · Nov 11, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loralai

A point I made previously...If fire and AoE is not meant to be the default, a little more effort should have been made on the part of the developers to not start elementals with mainly fire skills.

Agreed. Leaving out skill quests, running and capturing, how quickly can someone put together a viable build in each element?

FIRE: Flare, Fire Storm, Immolate, Fireball, Phoenix, Lava Font by Yak's Bend. Conjure Flame and Meteor Shower soon after that. You can run with that for quite a while.

AIR: Lightning Javelin, Enervating Charge, Blinding Flash by Yak's. Lightning Strike and Whirlwind at Lion's Arch, Lightning Touch in Beetletun, and you have to wait until Quarrel Falls for Lightning Orb, Henge for Gale and Maguuma for Chain Lightning.

WATER: NOTHING until Yak's. Frozen Burst, Ice Spikes and Shard Storm then, which are expensive for a low-level caster. Blurred Vision, Ice Spear, Ice Prison at Lion's, still damage-per-energy-impaired at that point compared to Fire.

EARTH: Actually a decent defensive package in Yak's (Earth Attunement, Armor of Earth, Ward Against Elements, Magnetic Aura, Eruption), with Stoning and Ward Against Foes/Melee soon after. Fun attack spells (Earthquake, Crystal Wave, Aftershock, Obsidian Flame, even Stone Daggers) all come late.

So by the time an Ele is halfway through the game, he's conditioned to blast with fire, fire, fire. Moving some of those skills to earlier towns might help avoid that.

Esuna · Nov 11, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher

I said it once, i'll say it again. Guild Wars is not about farming! If you like farming.. than try a different games. This patch finally make the game more challenging and fun for people to enjoy. And it finally give us a reason to use a different build on our elementlist instead of the good old echo nuking build. I'm not bashing people for this but ..... nuker elementlist are pretty linear. They just used arcane echo than click on metor shower, fire storm, and other spells while the enemies stay there and take the beating. Sure it easy for them to kill things but now it actually make you think about what skills to bring and used. Instead of depending on the echo nuking ability.

Please realize that this isn't only about "Nukers". It goes for freaken AoE spell that does damage for god's sake. I went in a group of 6 with my guildies and friends to test out new builds to farm SF. I was the fast casting geomancer with some air magic thrown in; Me/E. Originally I had Whirlwind/Aftershock to do some MINIMAL damage, but it made me lose the aggro. Our air spike ele did chainlightning, and they also fled. This isn't only affecting Nukers, but all classes who can use some form of AoE, dammit.

I agree with chronobyte, elementalists are primarily the artillery class. If you've played any game at all, USUALLY the "people-who-do-magic-stuff" like a wizard, mage, sage, whatever equivalent of the elementalist class - they aren't meant to support, defend AND put out decent damage at the same time. That's what tanks were there for. If every class was able to provide for themselves, it wouldn't be a very effective team. Everyone has to pull their own weight, and that's what was allowed before this ridiculous patch; there were semi-defined roles. Now take out AoE spells and what do you have? Single target damaging spells. Spike. As far as I know, air magic is the only one that does that effectively.

When I saw a person selling Flint's Fleshcleaver for 220k, I laughed my ass off, and had a good joke with my guildies about it. As well as those who stocked up on superior water/earth runes. Sure everything sounds good on paper, but how well are people able to coordinate as a team? You and I both know PUGS stink 9/10 times

Not to mention, water lines are almost pure utility, ie. don't do much damage, and are there for support, and water and earth have some single damage *AOE* spells.

I'm still trying to imagine "Water ele LFG!!!, Earth ele LFG!!" That would be hilarious.

blueyoda · Nov 11, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWGuru

actually...what I'm saying is that I'd rather not blow my wad on a junk bow and just use the collectors junk bow instead.(for all intents and purposes it's free). You've taken the worst string in the game and coupled with a grip that only adds a top end buffer to your health and really has no effect unless you find yourself alive at the end of a battle with less than 30 HP and thrown it onto a bow with a god awful refire rate and an incredible arc that makes it as easy as kiting to avoid getting hit. The only time a longbow should ever be used is for pulling...and for that I use the longbow I got in pre-searing.

remember the first cinematic before you installed the game ?? XD Ele gave me chills thinking ... wow they look damn strong

now even the cinematic is fake ~ when she does that firestorm or meteor storm ... hell they don't get HIT, they run away

Shusky · Nov 11, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicefeuled

Yep, went into Grenth's this morning with a group of henchies and took on Yakslapper. Meteored him, he took off one way, some of the other bad guys in the mob took off in another direction with Thom in pursuit. I finally caught up with Yak in Droknars; he was suffering from severe exhaustion. Thom whispered me from Beacons, called me a noob, and bailed from the party. I don't like this patch at all. I'm gone if it isn't reworked within a week.

My day is made

Anyway, the intentions were good, but the Headless Chicken tactic is an overkill. Fire magic not only got nerfed, but also basically made useless. Yes, this post is redundant.

Sir Skullcrasher · Nov 11, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43

My point is.. why is A-Net listening to some fools out there about elementlist and their AoE spells? I mean... why do you even complain to A-Net about something that work so well in the game. Now people wants tanks, or different build elementlist into their party and you get yell at or called "Noob" for using AoE spells.

Point is..Fantus

Why is A-Net even bothered to listen to a complain and made a patch so bad that will ultimatly pissed off so many people that they might not get any sales for Chapter 2 when it get released?

Darkest Dawn · Nov 11, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Mine doesn't do AoE stuff either, but if the critters lose aggro on the tank due to some guy using AoE stuff, she might (and will) get attacked randomly since critters will dash around madly and attack anyone in range. She has really no defense against level 30 critters and will get killed quite quickly. That was my point. My Mesmer herself is quite unharmed by the patch. The nerfing of a WARRIOR'S TANKING is her problem.

A valid point. the soft targets in the back are now going to be running as much as the monsters fleeing AOE, lol

yeaitsjim · Nov 11, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote "The game [Guild Wars PvE] has been turned into a game of tag."

Who's it? I think it's Orion, see ya definately, see everyone's runinng away from him.

Also, I commend everyone for suggesting alternative builds to fire, but honestly TRY it, ALL type of Area Effect spells for ALL classes, cause the enemy to literally break morale and run around like supid chickens... and they call it artifical intelligence, artifical being the KEY word there.

Sir Skullcrasher · Nov 11, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esuna

Please realize that this isn't only about "Nukers". It goes for freaken AoE spell that does damage for god's sake. I went in a group of 6 with my guildies and friends to test out new builds to farm SF. I was the fast casting geomancer with some air magic thrown in; Me/E. Originally I had Whirlwind/Aftershock to do some MINIMAL damage, but it made me lose the aggro. Our air spike ele did chainlightning, and they also fled. This isn't only affecting Nukers, but all classes who can use some form of AoE, dammit.

I agree with chronobyte, elementalists are primarily the artillery class. If you've played any game at all, USUALLY the "people-who-do-magic-stuff" like a wizard, mage, sage, whatever equivalent of the elementalist class - they aren't meant to support, defend AND put out decent damage at the same time. That's what tanks were there for. If every class was able to provide for themselves, it wouldn't be a very effective team. Everyone has to pull their own weight, and that's what was allowed before this ridiculous patch; there were semi-defined roles. Now take out AoE spells and what do you have? Single target damaging spells. Spike. As far as I know, air magic is the only one that does that effectively.

When I saw a person selling Flint's Fleshcleaver for 220k, I laughed my ass off, and had a good joke with my guildies about it. As well as those who stocked up on superior water/earth runes. Sure everything sounds good on paper, but how well are people able to coordinate as a team? You and I both know PUGS stink 9/10 times

Not to mention, water lines are almost pure utility, ie. don't do much damage, and are there for support, and water and earth have some single damage *AOE* spells.

I'm still trying to imagine "Water ele LFG!!!, Earth ele LFG!!" That would be hilarious.

Oh sorry. i thought its only on elementlist...

Point is.. why the hell A-Net made this AoE killing patch..

In fact i'm going to refer to A-Net as "AoE Killer"

Adambomb · Nov 11, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I'm seriously contemplating leaving GW. I've been playing the last couple of hours and its just wrong. As soon as someone uses an AoE spell the whole battle breaks down into shit.

If the patch is sorted out, to how it used to be, or altered so its fixed then I'll be a happy bunny again, as will a lot of people. However as it is GW is unplayable at the minute because a lot of people don't visit forums and whatnot so won't know that AoE spells will wreck a battle and stuff..

Please ANet... sort this out....

-Adam

Memphis · Nov 11, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Why are most people directly comparing the new AI with PvP play?

They are entirely different beasts. No, getting rid of AoE does not make PvE more challenging and fun. It practically eradicates the games own class system when it comes to basic battle tactics. Most people with multiple lvl20 characters have come to learn, understand and enjoy the game mechanics and character classes and how the game worked for their choice of character. Now it doesn't. The only way it would is if AoE was entirely done away with in PvE builds.

And those that are dribbling on about more realistic AI and how PvP players don't stand in AoE. PvP players aren't 8 levels higher than you and can't flatten you down in 2 hits.
PvP and PvE needs different tactics and therefore, different skills. Take a PvP build into UW and hustle some Aatxe mobs. See how far you don't get.

Paradigm · Nov 11, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

" And no more 55 build monk. (this patch offically killed it) "

I wouldnt say that =] i've already found a way around it that takes 8 minutes to kill everything vice 5 minutes.

GWGuru · Nov 11, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueyoda

remember the first cinematic before you installed the game ?? XD Ele gave me chills thinking ... wow they look damn strong

now even the cinematic is fake ~ when she does that firestorm or meteor storm ... hell they don't get HIT, they run away

I apologize for my opinions..however with the exception of frogdevourer(who I believe is confused and is actually in favor of this patch only that it needs some refinement) the rest of the posts are just a group of people complaining that their echo nuker no longer owns all of PvE....I feel sorry for you, I really do. But fire eles are not useless...you can still spec for fire bring the same skills and use AoE damage....you just can't sit there and spam Fire Storm + meteor shower at random enemies and hope it's going to do anything.

domino69 · Nov 11, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loch

You obviously don't get it. If you ever read these forums after a game update, you'd realize two things:

1) People who like the changes will keep playing the game.
2) People who hate the changes register for the forums and complain.

You get a terrible representation of gamers' opinions this way.

the gamers who actually care enough to go on these boards, read all these posts and voice their concern are the gamers who will be funding anet's chap 2...piss enough of us off and you wont even see research for chap 3

o wait, anet did just that last night

gamers who hated the changes far outweigh the gamers who are indifferent to the changes...

rofl...these supposed "think outside the box" gamers (who supposedly approves the changes and are "challenged" rofl) will stick around killing headless chickens with their supposed "new-found pug-for-pve-ts-required-teamwork" and ironically, use you know what---new exploits on the "improved run around in circles ai"...

anet if you want to stop farming just give everyone all max modded gold weapons and runes...make it so that gamers just go up to the priest and you can get whatever item you want...that would eliminate the need for gold and ergo, farming...why tease us with fow armor and perfect ghostly staffs if we can't ever get them? rofl...ridiculous...you give us all near impossible targets but this latest patch just says one thing--YOU'LL NEVER GET THAT FOW ARMOR ON UNLESS YOU BUY EBAY MONEY--rofl...you just boosted the price of ebay money with this very patch...

what's that i see?

ah nothing important...just a mass exodus of hard core gamers who'd rather spend their time and money on something else...

Cartoonhero · Nov 11, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

completley agree with delfin, my ele is fire because thats what they gave me to work with for a good third of the game, i really like my build though, its not a cracker jack echo e/me build. now i probably need to pick a new element if i want to finish ring of fire with her...and not get called a noob for trying to use my current build...*sigh*.

also, for those that havent even read about the new update, they ruin things unintentionally using AoE spells, aggro is lost, and chaos insues. being a monk has never been harder.

Teufel Eldritch · Nov 11, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Mine doesn't do AoE stuff either, but if the critters lose aggro on the tank due to some guy using AoE stuff, she might (and will) get attacked randomly since critters will dash around madly and attack anyone in range. She has really no defense against level 30 critters and will get killed quite quickly. That was my point. My Mesmer herself is quite unharmed by the patch. The nerfing of a WARRIOR'S TANKING is her problem.

Well don't join a group with ppl using scatter causing AoEs. True, true... easier said than done as Eles aren't the only ones with scatter AoEs, but if no one is using scatter AoEs then there will be no probs.

The problem, if want to call it that, I see with this patch is... the profession bias against Mez in favor of nukers has been reversed. So instead of Mez being left out of groups Eles will now be left out of groups. Good for Mez, bad for Eles. Tho I will say this... in general any type of profession bias(even when it works out well for my profession) is bad.

mishop · Nov 11, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Keep your build. It still works in ring of fire very very well.

Sir Skullcrasher · Nov 11, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

I'm actually sad.. My guildies spend 10k on my fire elementlist and now i'm thinking of killing that character. Also i got two weapons that is customized (dumb idea) so i don't what to do!